Painfull Choice Ahead for Conservatives
Sunday, February 10th, 2008Last week the one conservative who could unite the Republican Party as well as the conservative base dropped out of the presidential campaign. That left McCain in the driver’s seat, with Huckabee and Paul still taking up space in the back of the pack. Romney’s withdrawal all but seals the nomination for McCain, and conservatives are, to put it mildly, upset.
Senator John McCain, a former POW in Viet Nam, has been talking about his military service during the campaign more than John Kerry talked about his service during the 2004 campaign. No one is denigrating his service; in fact, it seems most people go out of their way to praise him for it. However, being a POW does not make you qualified to be President. Conservatives know this, which is why they never supported his campaign for President. McCain’s constant claim of being a “true conservative” also rings hollow when viewed in the context of his Senatorial voting record and legislative agenda for the past eight years.
Conservatives believe McCain has betrayed the Conservative Cause in the last few years by voting against the Bush Tax Cuts, proposing amnesty for 20 million illegal aliens, proposing and passing the McCain-Feingold act, which limits free speech rights during political campaigns, and fighting for the rights of captured terrorists. Such a blatant dismissal of conservative values in order to foster approval among Democrats has made McCain akin to the Anti-Christ in the conservative community. I mean, even Ann Coulter says she’ll campaign and vote for Hillary Clinton, rather than vote for McCain.
So, with all of this in mind, Conservatives (not Republicans) find themselves without a choice in this election. Some might argue that Huckabee should be their choice, but after saying that the Constitution should be changed to reflect the Bible, and that the Constitution is a “living, breathing document,” he’s pretty much lost face with the conservative base. Thus, the decision that each conservative must now make is this: Do I vote for McCain just to make sure the Democrat isn’t elected, or do I stay at home and not vote for anyone, knowing that by not voting I will make it easier for the Democrat to win?
Principles versus results. Can the country afford a President Obama or another President Clinton just so I can stick to my conservative principles? Is the inevitable damage an administration under the leadership of either of these two Democrats would reek on this country and its economy so great as to demand that I forsake my principles in order to prevent their ascension to the presidency?
I find myself undecided on these questions. I can’t remember the last time the presumptive Republican nominee was so out-of-step with the conservative base of the party. Even when Bush the Elder broke his “no new taxes” pledge, conservatives still backed him because of his conservative actions while president. McCain has no such goodwill built up with the party. In my opinion, it’s going to take a lot more research and soul-searching before I can make a decision on whether or not to vote this election. Certainly, I don’t to wake up on January 20, 2009 and see Clinton or Obama taking the oath of office, but I don’t really want to see McCain up there either.
Regardless of what I choose to do this election, conservatives need to make sure that we are not presented with this choice again in 2012. Surely we can find an acceptably conservative Republican to run for President by then.
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February 11th, 2008 at 10:59 am
the inevitable damage an administration under the leadership of either of these two Democrats would reek on this country and its economy
Are you being serious, Nick? Partisan hyperbole aside, do you really believe that this would damage the country? How so?
Go back and look at the comparison between the Clinton and Bush years. Monica Lewinsky aside, can you honestly claim that the last eight years were better than the previous eight?
George Bush made a huge mess of this country during his tenure. The next administration – and it will be Democratic – will have to spend most of its time and effort cleaning up that mess. To claim that they would do more damage than what has already been done is beyond believable.
Please explain your thinking here because I am honestly curious to know.
February 11th, 2008 at 11:45 am
“can you honestly claim that the last eight years were better
than the previous eight?”
Yes, a bit, Mike, by the two nominees to the Supreme Court!
By claiming what a huge mess this country is doing GWB’s administration is to ignore that the terrorists did come to this country and blow up 3,000 of the worlds’ citizens. We got there because the previous administration ignored the need to confront and kill OBL when they could because of our President’s FEAR of public opinion. Polls and public opinion drove the Clinton administration. We had two clear chances to destroy bin Laden, but only the President could say “do it”, and in the end, he didn’t have the stomach or spine to authorize it.
The terrorists will keep coming and coming. It’s easy to say things are a mess, but in all honesty, it’s the fault of all Congress and the Prez that our borders are still wide open, that our Congressional members themselves are AFRAID to take a stand on immigration for fear of angering Latinos. While we welcome all legal immigrants, it’s still our country, and we’re the ONLY progressive country who does not protect our OWN borders. It’s a serious oversight that is only getting worse. It’s unbelievable.
The mess in Iraq is better to be fought there than within our own country. We have to make a stand somewhere. The Islamic radicals have had 30 years of brain-washing to gather thousands of converts who never think of their own future, success or a better future for their kids. They only think of killing for their religion. When they say “Convert or die”, we should know that they are serious. Now they’re using retarded women and 12-year olds to do their dirty work. We can’t forget how many there are. Isn’t it interesting how all hateful-talking leaders always appeal for suicide-volunteers and they never do it themselves? Gosh, talk about living your religion; “you go die, I’ll keep preaching.”
To suggest that none of this would have happened under Gore or Kerry is not realistic. Because the recruiting was occurring during the late 80s, and no matter what, it’s with us now. It’s a real crusade for them, they’ve tasted some power and seen our blood, they like it and they want more, a lot more. They want nothing more than to take us down, and then they will take over the rest of the countries from within.
The Supreme Court is very important. It’s leaned liberal for years and it’s affected law all across the nation. Amazing to think that a huge cross in San Diego “should go” because a judge is pronouncing law from the bench instead of using logic within the current laws is ridiculous. To deny the Boy Scouts use of facilities they’ve used for decades when the Scouts kept everything clean for everybody else does not enforce the law, it just cripples the Scouts. To deny schools or cities being able to display a creche, stop “God” being spoken or displayed on school displays or have a holiday or winter tree instead of a Christmas tree is ridiculous. The ACLU is out there, active as can be and something has to balance their ridiculous fights against everything American, and that’s the Supreme Court. Our last bastion of common sense!
I could go on and on, but basically, we need a conservative-leaning Supreme Court to keep our laws on an even keel when cities, states or institutions over reach their authority. Also, the Feingold-McCain campaign financing law should have been declared unconstitutional, but it wasn’t, by 5-4.
If you think a Democratic administration will clean up the mess, check out their platforms and spending plans! There’s nothing about border control, and getting our of Iraq is NOT the same as winning in Iraq! And, believe me, we’re winning right now. Not only that, but any funding the government does is fraught with fraud. Why would we want to entrust them with our health decisions? My hubby and I have gone for years budgeting so as to have “enough” to keep us safe in our elder years, because we did not WANT to have to answer to the government. Now the government taxes what we’re getting in social security, which we’ve already paid taxes on! How crazy is that? I want health programs for all our citizens, but forcing all of us to do it is against the American principle. Why does Congress not pass the same health plan for US as they have for THEMSELVES??!!
Iraq had 30 years of brutal suppression. Maybe going in wasn’t for the right reasons (the WMD’s that had already been destroyed), but the intelligence was read by all (and confirmed now by Hussein who wanted to keep Iran at bay). It takes time to make the people want to stand up and get control of their own country. This is happening now. To withdraw next year means that all the young American lives up to now are wasted. We need to hold on until our goal is secure, so we can always know that at least the deaths of these brave military souls came to something. Getting out is the easy way, but it won’t rid us of the thousands that are still eager to spill my blood, your blood and enslave or convert our babies.
We have to stand strong and together against this deadly onslaught against our basic rights. It’s not easy, Mike, and we’re going to make mistakes. But, to blame it all on Bush is pretty one-sided.
We have to have a President who’s not afraid to do what he really feels is for the good of the country. Somebody who’s so sure of himself that he’s willing to take the chance. I think we could count on one hand the Congressional leaders who are willing to take that chance, don’t you? Our Congress gives themselves healthy raises by an arrangement where they have to vote NOT to enact it, which of course, they never do!!! Cowards. Ron Paul preached against something and then would vote no, knowing it was going to pass, and then he put in earmarks so his district would get some bennies. They all did this, I’m not picking on him. Shameless.
These are my feelings about this situation. I’m curious to your reaction of my thoughts; have a nice day.
February 11th, 2008 at 2:17 pm
Mike:
Yeah, what she said!
Regardless of who the Democrats nominate, there are two policies which will destroy the economy and cause untold suffering for everyone. These are Universal Health Care and Tax increases.
UHC will be just another entitlement which will consume ever-increasing amounts of taxpayer dollars while providing sub-standard services. Not only that, but Hillary has stated that if someone doesn’t want to pay for it she’ll garnish their wages. Wow, that’s about as communist as you can be.
Tax increases, the bread and butter of liberal politicians for decades, will be passed early and often. However, instead of raising tax revenue, the increased tax burden will instead force businesses to stop investing in their business as they try to both turn a profit and provide jobs. In the end, they will have no choice but to lay off workers, thereby increasing the number of people on public assistance, which will consume even more taxpayer dollars. As the pool of wealthy people declines, the liberals will be forced to lower the amount which is considered “wealthy” so that they can keep tax revenues high. Suddenly, a promise to tax only the wealthy will become just another broken promise as everyone gets the shaft.
Yeah, I think a Democrat in the White House is a very dangerous thing, especially if it is one of the two you guys are parading around the country.
February 12th, 2008 at 5:28 pm
Sandra C,
Thank you for your comments. I’m sorry I haven’t had time until now to respond to them. Let me try and explain as succinctly as I can where we differ on some of the key points and hopefully it will dispel some misunderstandings we each have about the other’s side.
I was opposed to the Iraq war from the beginning. It’s not that I doubted Hussein might have had some “WMDs” (i.e. old WWII era mustard gas cannisters long since void of toxicity), it was that I never believed they were a threat to our national interests that merited such an extreme military response (an unprovoked invasion and occupation of the country).
Also, I saw it as a huge diversion from our primary objective which should have been capturing Osama bin Laden and dismantling al-Qaeda.
Now here we are five years later, nearly 5,000 U.S. troops have been killed and tens of thousands more have been seriously wounded. We’ve sunk nearly half a trillion dollars in taxpayers money into Iraq and the politicians there still refuse to settle their petty differences and are just milking us for all we are worth. It will probably cost us another trillion dollars and cost thousands more lives before we can fully extract ourselves from this quagmire.
And for what??!! Iraq never had anything to do with 9/11! Zip!! And as far as establishing a democracy, fuggedaboutit! That would take several generations to accomplish under the best circumstances.
Our intelligence agencies recently reported that al-Qaeda (the real international terrorist organization and not the wannabe imitators in Iraq) is stronger than ever. And we still don’t know where bin Laden is. Where is the outrage!!??!! Can you imagine if a Democrat had been president when this happened and five years later bin Laden was still loose? Would the rightwingers have just shrugged it off like it’s no big deal like they do today?
We HAVE to get out of Iraq ASAP because it is draining our limited resources, weakening our military strength and squandering our political power around the world. Our nation’s superpower status declined significantly during the eight years that Bush has been in office. And it is not the desperate illegal immigrants who come across our border looking to do menial labor (which, by the way, is badly needed) that we need to be worried about. It is the foreign governments and corporations that are rushing in and buying up big stakes in our economy. We are already in debt so badly that it will take several generations to pay off and Bush has made things immensely worse with his grossly irresponsible tax giveaways to the wealthiest Americans.
And another thing about those tax breaks. How come they didn’t do what they were supposed to do? Weren’t tax cuts supposed to be this big panacea that would stimulate business expansion, job growth, and so forth? Why, then, at the end of Bush’s term are we going headlong into a major recession following seven years of weak and stagnant growth? Is it all because of 9/11? Don’t make me laugh!
The problem here – the big white elephant in the room that everyone is ignoring – is that Republicans got everything they wanted for the past eight years, all that their hearts could desire, and IT DIDN’T WORK!
It wasn’t just Bush who failed. The rightwing philosophy of governing failed, just like it did during the Bush administration’s flacid response to the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. Republicans whined all during the boom-boom Clinton years that government doesn’t work. And when they got in power, they made a huge mess of things just to prove themselves right.
We need people in office who don’t despise our government. People who actually believe in the founding principles of America. I don’t care if they are Republicans or Democrats, but we have got to get away from these rightwing authoritarian radicals who hate everything about our country (with the exception of the military) and do their dead level best to trash it at every opportunity.
(Phew!)
OK, I’ll jump off my soapbox now. Thanks for listening!
February 12th, 2008 at 10:28 pm
Great response, Mike, thanks. Just another word about our invasion of Iraq. Not only was it a diversion, it was profoundly stupid. If our aim was to combat terrorism and bring Al Qaida and Osama bin Laden to justice, we could not have done more to harm that effort than to divert our resources from Afghanistan and choose this moment in history to invade Iraq. In doing so, we affirmed bin Laden’s worst propaganda about western imperialism and essentially poured gasoline on the fire of anti-American sentiment in the Middle East. Anyone who was remotely conscious during the 80′s ought to remember how the Soviet Union went down in flames in Afghanistan because you DON’T FIGHT TERRORISM WITH A HUGE MILITARY ACTION. It’s counter-productive. That is not to say that our military didn’t have an important role to play – they did: Once we ousted the Taliban from power in Afghanistan, our role should have shifted from a military action to a political and nation-building action, and we should have kept our money and resources in Afghanistan and stayed out of Iraq. Of course, our problem is that we’re there now – we can’t undo Bush’s catastrophic blunder, and the next President is going to have a huge mess on his/her hands. Campaign rhetoric aside, I don’t believe that we can draw down our troops quickly; getting out of Iraq will be extremely difficult, costly and time consuming. I just have to hope that our next President has a whole lot more on the ball than George W. Bush and isn’t interested in pretending to be Rambo.
February 12th, 2008 at 11:47 pm
Hello Mike,
The problem is that I do understand what you’re saying, but in fact, it’s not the “right” who failed, it’s Congress as a whole who is failing the whole country. We expect our Congress to do what’s right and all they do is pad their districts, pad their re-election campaign chests, and pad their jobs with plush bennies. Workers voted into office who are supposed to work for us are living huge privileged lives at the public trough. Not one of them has the nerve to stand up for what’s right for America. Imagine such cowards in charge of our safety!
I, too, was distressed that we diverted from Afghanistan to Iraq, feeling that it would be best to finish what we’d sworn to do. However, that is in the past, just as knowing that a very, very big mistake was made when Reagan ordered the withdrawal of Marines from Beirut after the terrible bombing years ago. Just as we now know that withdrawing from Somalia in the 90′s after Rangers were killed instead of really going in to exact some revenge left all Muslim radicals thinking that we were paper tigers. The whole matter is we’re IN Iraq, things are working with the surge, and if we totally leave, the whole world will know that we can never, ever, ever be relied upon to keep our word ever again. No nation will never partner with us in good faith again because they will know that America has no good faith in keeping their word. We can’t let the image of the helicopters flying off the roof in Saigon ever leave our mind, when we left all those people there to face what we could not.
Leaving Iraq means that nearly 5,000 Americans would have lost their lives in vain. If we can get Iraq solidified and angry enough to want to keep their country out of terrorist hands, at least every relative, loved one or friend of each one of those young people will know that something worthwhile came out of the deaths of all these good souls. That’s happening. Not as fast, but nothing is perfect. It took over 30 years to destroy anybody willing to be brave in Iraq; they have to learn that it’s what they want, that they can do it.
Please, about Katrina! Look at the party of the mayor of New Orleans and the governor of Louisiana — it’s Democratic! Florida had four (count them, FOUR!) hurricanes that year and kept on ticking. Two hurricanes passed over the exact same area, and a third passed just some miles west of that point. Coastal Mississippi had a 30-foot plus surge overwhelm homes that had survived Camille. The last train to leave New Orleans left virtually empty despite all seats offered to any citizens desiring to evacuate — and nobody showed up! Photos in a flooded city showed something like 300 busses (school and city) left to be ruined in the flood. It is said that “no drivers” were left. However, in an emergency, the ones who got the go get going, and the ones who wait to be told what to do get left behind. How about that 19-year old kid who hopped into a bus and drove it to Houston, stopping on the way to fill up the whole thing by the time he got there? Now, that’s an example of how to get going. If drivers were needed, somebody needed to do some organizing, and it could have been done.
I urge you to read the book by Douglas Brinkley about the Katrina flood so you can understand that oversights by many parties resulted in the catastrophe. The fault is spread out in many directions, and it’s a unique look into how things can fail when everyone is complacent. The New Orleans SPCA had all their dogs and cats carefully caged with records and evacuated to Houston before Mayor Nagin even issued the first warning! Incredible stupidity.
Here in Florida, we are ALWAYS warned to have supplies for 4 (FOUR) days in case of a bad hurricane. That’s because most federal help is away from the danger zone and must get to where the problem is. Katrina was an extremely bad event and things went wrong, nonetheless, help began arriving on the 4th day. It has to be up to the Governor and any Mayors to make sure the state/city is ready to respond. The failure by those two officials is huge and glaring.
I disagreed with the Iraq policy. However, we are destroying al-Qaeda on two fronts, and that’s not a bad thing. There’s so many of them just waiting to die for their religion. Just don’t see how that many virgins can be available for them in Paradise. But, they want to die for their religion and we need to see if we can’t arrange the meetings, over there and not here.
I’m as harsh on my own voting choices as I am on the opposing side, Mike. I feel our politicians are leading us to ruin…. and nobody seems to give a damn. They just want to make sure they have their benefits, grants, rights. Frustrates the hell out of me. I’m extremely patriotic, I even donate to a sniper website so our soldiers can have the correct equipment they need when they have to hunt down the enemy. I send valentines to the wounded and stuffed toys to the soldiers to give to the kids.
And a member of Congress stands up and says Marines are killers, another announces to the world that the war is lost. Newspapers release sensitive, confidential information on how we’re tracing down terrorists by their cell phones — and the enemy quit using that method. Would this have ever happened in World War II? I think not, and I worry for my country.
I don’t care who is elected, either. I just feel we have to keep level headed about everything and work together to improve our nation, not just feather our own nests (districts). I’m disappointed and disgusted by all of them!!
I have voted Democratic. But, I don’t know if Truman would even recognize his own party anymore, and I feel that the Supreme Court is our only way of keeping things balanced before we tumble down too far from the Constitution. It’s the only law of the land that stands alone and is recognized. We need to keep it faithful to the Constitution.
That’s how I feel! And, thank YOU for listening. I respect your opinions and feelings.
February 13th, 2008 at 5:38 pm
Sandra,
I think It’s just human nature to want to get one’s “fair share” of the pie. You shouldn’t be so hard on the congressmen. They are just doing what comes natural to most people.
Even our former Sen. Phil Gramm (remember Gramm-Rudman?) known as a big budget hawk and always voting against every spending project, wasn’t averse to getting big pork barrell projects for his state when the opportunity arised (Does the Superconducting SuperCollider ring a bell?)
Confronted about this one time, Gramm responded that since Congress was going to spend the money anyway, he was going to make sure as much of it as possible would get spent in Texas.
Politicians who sit around and don’t bring back any pork for the home district are generally run out of office after one term. Most people who are upset with Congress like their own congressman or congresswoman. It’s all those OTHER politicos who represent OTHER districts that they despise.
I’m glad to hear that you were as distressed about going into Iraq as I was. But I would just add that Afghanistan is hardly in the past now. It’s still a mess over there and I’m not sure how we are going to fix things since we took our eye off the ball so long ago.
I disagree about Reagan pulling our troops out of Beirut. If he had stubbornly left them over there at that time, they would have just become a target for more bombing attacks. There is something to be said about tactical retreats with the goal of winning the larger war. Sam Houston knew this. Ulysseus S. Grant knew this. George W. Bush does not.
I do not believe that any American soldier dies in vain when serving his or her country. I utterly reject the argument that we have to continue the war so that our collective guilt over the past casualties will be salved. Bush and Co. should have declared victory and pulled us out of Iraq years ago. Our military has accomplished every goal set for them by this administration. They scattered the Baathists, took control of the country, scoured the countryside for WMDs (found zip), set up a provisional government, captured Saddam, killed his sons, killed countless other insurgent leaders, allowed the provisional government to hold elections and set up a constitution, and on, and on. We’ve had so much freaking success over there we can’t even keep track of it all. But the one goal the administration will not set for our military is “victory.” They have NEVER defined what they think that term means. So, of course, we can’t achieve something that doesn’t exist, and every year the bar is set higher and higher in a neverending game that serves only to enrich contractors, empty our pockets of tax dollars and gouge consumers with super high gas prices.
About Katrina, I’m not going to try and defend the Democratic mayor or governor. But the Federal Emergency Management Administration is what everyone depends on when there is a huge natural disaster. And Katrina is unique in that if the levies had held, we would hardly remember it other than a really big storm. What devestated New Orleans was not the storm itself, but the flooding after the levvies broke because so much of the city sits below sea level. Bush took a FEMA that had worked very well during the Clinton years, and filled it with a bunch of cronies who had no background and no experience in emergency management. Sure, there is lots of blame to go around, but Bush’s disregard for and disrespect for governmental institutions is No. 1 in my book.
You are probably right that Truman would not recognize his own party today. But neither would Eisenhower. In fact, Eisenhower’s granddaughter has recently endorsed Obama.
That is one of the things I like about Obama. He really is reaching out to Republicans the way Reagan reached out to Democrats. I think we need that today more than ever.
Finally, as to the Supreme Court, I agree that it is out of balance – to the Right! Are you kidding! We don’t even have any true liberals left on the Court. No one of the caliber of William Brennan or Thurgood Marshall. Certainly no one as far to the left as Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas are to the right.
But now we have to depend on William Kennedy to be a swing vote and that only happens once in a blue moon. The other four members of the court – Scalia, Thomas, Alito and that other loser Bush appointee whose name I can’t remember – are all hard core rightists.
The closest thing to a liberal we have on the court today is John Paul Stevens, and he started out as a conservative appointed by Gerald Ford. Then you have Clinton’s two appointees – Ruth Bader Ginsburg and William Breyer who are liberal moderates at best. Next there is David Souter, the Bush the Elder appointee, who tends to be moderate left as well on most occassions. The rest of the court (i.e. the majority) is conservative without question. We used to have Sandra Day O’Connor who could be described as moderate conservative who would occassionally swing to the left and provide a few key victories for my side (which of course is the side of light and goodness
We DO need balance on the Supreme Court and the only way we can maintain it is to have a Democrat in office for the next four years.
Thank you too Sandra for your thoughtful responses. I respect your opinions as well.
February 13th, 2008 at 6:28 pm
Yeah, that other loser’s name is Roberts and he’s now Chief Justice.
February 16th, 2008 at 3:38 pm
Wow you have to love the five year later and our troops are still there meme. Why is it the Left never whines about our now permanent presence in the Balkans thanks to that adventurer Clinton. I forgot about Field Marshall Clinton’s glorious triumphs in Haiti, Somilia and the Middle East. Yes I can recall all that love he generated, we saw it in the streets of Belgrade and Mog.
I guess we lost WWII because our troops are still in Japan and Germany.
But never mind the fact that Saddam sold Libya wmd plants or that he violated the cease fire accords that alloweda resumption of hostilities for Iraq’s invasion of Kuwait, lets ignore all that, lets ignore that every major HW for terrorism was centered and supported by Saddam. We all realize that the US was never threatened. Yup and I’ll bet you never lock your door at night either.
February 17th, 2008 at 8:58 am
Well, Thomas, our “presense in the Balkans” as you put us is NOT resulting in the deaths of 100-plus soldiers per month, nor is it costing us nearly $200 million per day from taxpayers’ pockets.
It’s both funny and sad how rightwingers have flip-flopped on what they say about Iraq now that we have been in that quagmire for five years and counting. Before the war, the Bush administration swore up and down that it would all be over in six months or a year at worst. And the cost? Well, the whole things was supposed to pay for itself with Iraqi oil profits! Of course there would be no need for a tax increase to pay for the war. Why we could treat ourselves to another big tax cut for the rich instead! Yippee!
And when some economist in the Bush administration dared to predict that the total cost of the war might be as much as $200 billion, he was summarily canned by the administration and booted out the door.
Now today the rightwingers act like we were planning to be there for 100 years all along and they put their fingers in their ears and scream “LaLaLaLaLa” anytime someone mentions the cost to taxpayers.